English
Հայերէն
By 
“What if an Armenian was Muslim or Bahai, or Hindu?” the question is asked one day during a conversation about ethnic identity and why it was tied into religious identity.
There are those, mostly scholars in Armenia, who vehemently deny the Armenian ethnic identity to anyone who is not of the Christian faith, particularly of the Orthodox persuasion. They claim that being Armenian automatically assumes and implies Christianity.
This logic would be acceptable except for the fact that Armenians, as an ethnic group, existed long before Christianity or their conversion to it in a bloody and violent manner. The switch to the religion that now identifies us was not a peaceful one and St. Gregory the Illuminator himself waged the war.
Armenia, two millennia ago, had a varied population. Strategically located at the crossroads of the region, many cultures passed through the area while some chose to make it their permanent home. As a result, the Armenia of that day was culturally diverse, religiously tolerant and very cosmopolitan.
Legend has it that upon King Drtad’s miraculous cure at the hands of St. Gregory the Illuminator, he immediately converted to the magical new religion and proclaimed Armenia to now be a Christian state. Everyone was to set aside their previous religious beliefs which they’d held for hundreds of years in favor of a new one and live happily ever after in the afterglow of their new found religion. But the story doesn’t end there. Or even begin there.
King Drtad was the infant son of Khosrov II when he was assassinated by Anak, an Armenian operating as an agent for the Persian Empire. St. Gregory was the son of Anak who, as an adult, returned to Armenia and worked for King Drtad without informing him of his true identity.
The legend taught to Armenian children today does not include this fact. Completely ignoring it, it skips directly to St. Gregory’s time spent in the dungeon for being a Christian. In reality, his incarceration came about because of the king’s discovery of the assistant’s true heritage. Which king wouldn’t imprison the son of his father’s assassin?
The story goes on to say that after Drtad is cured of his illness at the hands of Gregory, he becomes a believer of Christianity. As a young king, Drtad fought hard to liberate Armenia and create a quasi independent state. His country’s conversion to the upstart religion was the final break from his Roman and Persian neighbors at a time when religion affiliation was a key tool that set a nation apart.
The process of becoming peace-loving Christians was anything but peaceful or loving. The legend of Drtad omits the key part of the story by ignoring the ‘how’ of the conversion. Although begun peacefully, it soon turned violent when nobles, priests and their followers of the prevailing faiths resisted the efforts of the state. The forced conversion of hundreds of thousands of people had other purposes besides spreading the word of God. Under the guise of religion, Kind Drtad was able to purge his land of political opposition and enemy agents and confiscate the wealth of the existing temples. Everyone was either forced to convert or lose their heads. His right-hand man in this war was none other than St. Gregory, the founder of the Armenian Orthodox church. His greatest supporter and passionate advocate of the effort was Ashkhen, Drtad’s wife who was not Armenian.
In one brief decade, Armenia went from a culturally diverse nation without an official national language to one that espoused uniformity and conformity where the use of Armenian became a requirement and strictly enforced. Survival is a basic human instinct and many did convert rather than lose their heads. Some of the descendants of those who chose to convert almost two millennia ago were, in the early part of the 20th century, forced to make yet another difficult choice: convert or die, but this time to Islam.
Why is identity tied to faith? What about Armenians that are Orthodox but don’t speak a word of the language or know any of the history? What of the Armenian of mixed heritage with the overwhelming love and enthusiasm for the Armenian culture who practices another religion? Do they qualify?
At a recent photo exhibit, Harry, a well known photographer, gave a contextual explanation of one of his photos that looked like nothing more than Muslim village women escaping a flood while holding their children to their breast. The real story is that they were Kurdish women, who after the death of their children and the hardships they endured, were allowed by Turkey to emigrate to Germany. “But the best part,” said Harry, “is that when going through customs and registering their names in their new home country, each one of them gave an Armenian name.” They reclaimed their original identity. “Now, they even have a nice little community with a church.”
Today, in the remote corners of what was once a part of greater Armenia and is now Turkey, there exists a substantial group of Armenians who have almost all converted to Islam. Although they maintain their Armenian identity and their distinctive Armenian dialect, they do not practice the espoused religion of Christianity. Do we consider them to be Armenian?
It is estimated that there are several million “hidden” Armenians in Turkey and the surrounding areas. A little-thought of side effect of the Armenian-Turkish protocols and the resulting improved relations between the two countries may be just the encouragement and motivation these Armenians need to stand up and reclaim their roots and fortify our numbers. Can we deny them their Armenian identity? Can we afford not to?
I don’t know what history books you’ve been reading, or what flavor of kool Aid you’ve been drinking? Just because you’re parents are Armenian, or you speak Armenian, doesn’t make you an Armenian. That’s wishful thinking by you!
Dear ”daron”, here are “new sources that deal with ancient Armenian religion”. Noravank, the publisher, is the Armenian government’s think tank.
http://www.noravank.am/file/article/207_am.pdf
“Աշխատության հիմնական առանցքն այն է, որ հայոց հոգևոր զարգացումները եղել են շարունակական և, ի տարբերություն այսօր շահարկվող որոշ կարծիքների, ինչպես միշտ, այնպես էլ քրիստոնեության ընդունման ընթացքում չեն վերացրել ազգային արժեքները։ Հայ հին կրոնի ընդերքում հայտնաբերված մի շարք բաղադրյալներ և առանձնահատկություններ վկայում են, որ հայ հավատալիքներում բավականին ակտիվ են եղել տարրեր և երանգներ, որոնք մերձեցրել են հայ հավատքը միաստվածությանը։ Այդ տարրերը դիտվում են որպես ավելի հին, սկզբնական ընկալումներ, որոնց հետագայում գումարվել են որոշակի պոլիթեիստական շերտավորումներ։ Ուստի Հայաստանում քրիստոնեության ընդունումը որպես պետական կրոն չի կարող ընկալվել իբրև օտարամուտ գաղափարների պարտադրանք։ 301թ. հայոց դարձն ունեցել է լուրջ նախադրյալներ հայ մինչքրիստոնեական հավատալիքներում։”
Many thanks Stepan.
Thanks Stepan Sargsyan for your help on the references.
Daron, you can find lots of other resources scattered in Armenian literature on the subject. One obvious evidence is the existence of Սասնոյ Ծռերը (Sasno Dzere) folklore tale, which neither Persians have, nor Greeks nor Romans. But only Armenians have preserved somehow in the tale that is taught to first graders even to this days. Of course, the tale content is not the relevance in point, but mere existence of it is indeed a simple prove that Mihr was much stronger and more ancient in Armenian Highland than any other places. Concerning Vrej Nersessyan’s literature. He is very much in line with me that Christianity is much older than Jesus of Nazarene, and its origin is neither Egypt nor Jerusalem. It came from the North, namely Gomagene and Tigrangert. Around 300 AD, there are also some existing references between Coptic and Armenians. Look into the Coptic Christianity for further details.
This such a hot topic that this entire page has been swiped and put on the barbarians web portal barbarianforum.com. I have a concise view as to who is Armenian. Anyone who is for historic Armenia to be populated by Armenian speaking Armenians and only Armenians is an Armenian. Now can we go on to regime change before the morans running Armenia give all of liberated Artsakh to the rabid dogs living to the east of us.
I am Armenian born in the Diaspora.
Besides my Armenian name,
I am born in an Armenian family,
Studied in an Armenian school,
and attended Armenian Sunday school/church, as far as my memory goes.
Upon graduating from secondary school, I had to continue my studies in a non-Armenian school, since there are no Armenian colleges or universities where I live.
The sudden change in environment, I have to admit, was a challenge. A challenge in every way: my morals, identity, armenianism, and Christian values…all of which I had acquired from my parents, school and church were put to test.
Those years in post graduate studies were, besides building my future, affecting on my past weather I wanted or not.
Sooner than later, I realized: « Although the fast-changing, globalizing and moral forgetting society we now live in deeply affects us, I decide how it will influence me». And so does each and every other Armenian brother and sister of mine, whether he is light or dark skinned, hairy or short, illiterate or even unable to speak our mother tongue.
Motivated by personal interest, I have studied Armenian history. As an ardent reader of Armenian history I was very surprised by many statements, in the original column and in the responses, which are nowhere to be found in any history book. I don’t mean to offend anyone but I was very confused…how can these statements be made so with such certainty.
There is something that surprised me even more.
I understand that there is a some confusion...since we live in a pretty confused society. But what I couldn’t believe as I read through the responses is how much our people have strayed from the One, single truth, to whom our forefathers held so deeply. No, I do not claim that someone is not Armenian, because he is not Apostolic-Orthodox and is, instead, Hindu, Muslim or anything else. But I distance myself from the relativism this world teaches…and so if I meet a Hindu Armenian, after getting to know him, I will try to bring him back to our mother church…in which we lived for centuries and for whom we have also died. By died, I mean died. For example, in the year 707, when the Arabs invaded and conquered Armenia and much of the middle-east, the Arab general Vogba invited the Armenian nakharars to Gasm, Nakhitchevan, making them think that it was for peaceful purposes. Upon their arrival and assembly in two of the city’s churches, Vogba gave the order to seal all the entrances. The helpless nakharars were given the option to denounce their faith turning to Islam and be freed, but they bravely rejected, instead choosing to remain in the churches as they were burned to the ground. The historian Stepanos Orpelian puts the number of martyrs in each church at about 800.(Azkabadoum-National History,Archbishop Maghakia Ormanian, Vol.1,pages 803-804,section 547). (Jirair, on November 23, you stated that the Arabs did not try to convert us to Islam, I suggest you read the rest of this section in Azkabadoum. Very interesting).
As you all know, the rest of our history is quite similar.
Why did our forefathers and mothers prefer death than an easy life in conversion? Some might say that it’s a question of protecting our identity. That is true, but not the whole story. If the Armenian people converted to Christianity in order to spare their lives, as some said unfoundedly in their response, then likewise they would easily convert to yet another religion, in order to again save their lives. So what was it that kept our parents Christian? It’s a very hard and complex question which I don’t know if anyone can answer with mere words. So I will cite from the Arab Invasion of Armenia written by Ghevont Badmitch (Historian) (725-790 C.E.) ;
«The ancient Armenian historians compare this to when the three young jews were thrown into the fiery furnace of the babylonians and in the mouths of the nakharars they repeat the canticle of the three jews “Blessed are you o Lord and God of our fathers and worthy of praise” (Daniel 3:19-23).»
Is this truth, or mere myth? One thing is for sure, even thought the nakharars had such a courageous confession and death, it does not necesserelly imply that they were all practicing Christians, or even believers. But when sure death anounced itself and the doors and windows to this world were all shut tight, they turned to the only door that still glittered with some hope…to the one who once said:«I am the door of the sheep…the way, the truth and the life» (John 10:7,14:6)
Sorry if I took more of your time then usual with my long response. I felt I had to write, since I consider each and every armenian armenian, whatever be the circumstances he was born in.
If you are asking yourselves “Ok, they were bravely martyred, but what is the point? If they entered from the door of truth and life, where did it take them?
Instead of answering, I prefer to give you the key the door. A key that resisted rusting and thieves for many centuries, being covered with the protective blood of our people. The key, dear brothers and sisters, is Faith. The faith they had and passed down to us.
In conclusion, what’s important is if one considers himself Armenian. If he does, then he also considers himself a child of Katch Vartan(Mamigonean).
And if anyone is a child of Vartan, then that person also shares his parents.
Let’s not forget Vartan’s response to the Persians: “ We have only one mother, the Holy church, and one father, the Asdouadzashounch (Bible, literally-breath of God)”
An Armenian can not be a Hindu. You have to be born into it. There are real Armenians who believe the impossible can be possible and then there are the naysayers, traitors, turk lovers, protocol cheerleaders, turkish culture lovers who wish to hypnotise nationalist Armenians and make them drink their coolaid. If you dont think Armenian aspirations are possible thats fine and dandy, but you should assimilate at the speed of light because the Nation does not need you. Seek the pleasures that western life gives you and keep your noses out of Hye Tahd.
Dino, have you by any chance heard of the Armenian Aryan movement? If you haven’t you should look into it because your rhetoric is very similar to theirs. You’d probably find some people who think the way you do. There’s an entire topic area on one internet site that’s dedicated to glorifying Hitler. I find it so strange that Armenians would do this, since Hitler was actually inspired by the Armenian Genocide to go ahead and commit his own atrocities. These so-called ultra-nationalist Armenian Aryans should be ashamed of themselves. They bring nothing but shame to our nation.
To Patricia:
FOCUS!
Seriously, I think you have to be disturbed if you think I am a hitler lover out of my post above yours about an Armenian can not be a hindu. You have a problem focusing on what has been written and thus unable to give a cogent response to what has been presented. You don’t like my opinions, that’s swell, but you are incapable of having an intelligent conversation. I say the sky is blue, your response is no, it’s tuesday. Obviously you are not a serious person.
Let me make it clear to you where I stand in politics and religion: I am a libertarian socialist and a secular humanist. What are you Patty?
Oh, and one other point. If you so resent the “pleasures of western life”, why are you living in California and not Urfa or Kharpert or even Stepanakert, for that matter?
I have no resentment toward the pleasures of western life. Just out of curiosity, is English your first language? You are just not keeping up with the prose. I encourage those who for some crazy reason STILL think they are Armenian whilst possessing not one iota of desire for Hye Tahd to get on that couch in the burbs of philly or wherever, watch that TV, eat junk food, gain weight, tweet, facebook on subjects like reconciling being an atheist and an Armenian, etcetera.
That is far better then participating with Armenians who care about Hye Tahd.
You don’t care about Hye Tahd Patricia. That’s OK. But why bloviate? It took me sometime to figure you out. The Armenian world has passed you by because your ideas are not about Armenia but about assimilating. You went into hyperdrive to assimilate in the last few years. Good for you, however, you want every Armenian to think like you…. you want all Armenians to give up and assimilate. I show you a mirror and you hate what you see. And you wildly attack. You have given up being an active participant in Armenian diasporan life (I have explained it to you in past posts) and you find it pyschologically problematic ( I could use the right term but I won’t) to do it alone.
I know you want to have the world listen to you about your reasons for assimilating. Nobody cares except me. I’m just a good samaritan to let you see the light and help you get to where you are going real fast. Continue assimilating, my dear, it’s for the good of the Armenian nation that you do. I can give you counseling pro bono to ease you into that sweet release of total assimilation. Just consider me the jack kevorkian of those at the end of their Armenian cultural lives that need that extra “help”.
Long Live Armenia! May the Armenian cause yield everlasting fruit! May the memories of the defeated enemies of the Armenian people be consigned to oblivion!
@ Dino; from Armen:
If anyone is a dinosaur in thought, it is those that think like you – and I grant that you are in a majority. But I’ll remind you too, lest you get too comfortable in your blanket of superiority, that in that majority of haters, you, as an Armenian (Orthodox, Catholic, or Protestant) will be turned out of that club and shunned for being “different”.
Since when has being at the end of one’s ethnic cultural life been a standard for euthenasia? You’re just trying to be poetic (and not very good at it, I might add)! Instead of worrying about past glories, people should be thinking about how to advance the human race into the future (and that is my idealism).
You know Dino, one could eradicate every person from the planet but the Chinese (all of the Western Hemisphere depopulated, Europe, Africa, Middle East, Russia, Near East, all the Asian races…), leave just the 1 billion Chinese, and the human race would not skip a beat. Armenians, like their language, are a dead end. As long as we can get some of our genes passed on to the next human race, we should consider ourselves lucky.
By trying, hoping, and clawing at some ideal of a past glory you seem to think Armenia once had in the past, you are slipping down a slope that is a bottomless abyss.
The future is not going to be decided or perservered by cultural groups. In my opinion, it will either be a religious (all hail allah, yahweh, or the all-mighty dollar!) or (hopefully) some new meme that is based on being human only.
Until an ideological natural selection weeds out those that think along the lines you think, the rest of us have to suffer through listening to your putrid and regurgitated ideas.
Good riddance.
“Armenians, like their language, are a dead end.”
I don’t believe in using offensive language against anyone, even against my worst enemy. Using such language brings one down rather than up. However, when one like you allows himself to make such gross hate speech about my language or my nation, I feel stand up and smash his head. I will give you opportunity to retract your hate speech within 30 days. I will write to the editor of this publication to remove your offensive comment from the paper and disallowed you from making more comments. Also, I suggest change your name or your alias. You don’t deserve it.
papkenhartunian@gmail.com
How fascinating that a more realistic view of the place of Armenia and Armenians in the world is so despised by some. I don’t consider Armen’s comments to be hateful at all. In fact, once more folks grieve the past, perhaps something can be done to transcend the impact of the Genocide and preserve what we can of our heritage and language for the future. One of the worst effects of the Genocide, in my opinion, is the fact that Armenians (especially those in the Diaspora) feel obligated to spend their precious time and energy preoccupied with their identity, its formation, its preservation, its definition, its propagation, its projection into the future, etc. There’s no room for a plurality of ideas, for productive dialog, for process. This preoccupation, in my opinion, will be the main force behind our eventual disintegration.
“There’s no room for a plurality of ideas, for productive dialog, for process. This preoccupation, in my opinion, will be the main force behind our eventual disintegration.”
What process do you have in your mind? You are not authorized and perhaps you are not qualified to speak for any other Armenian. Therefore, do not use pronoun “we.”
Armenians are now united more than ever. Otherwise, we wouldn’t able to survive amongst our ancient enemies. There are more than 50 political parties in Armenia and there are more than handful of them in diaspora. Although, they have differences in their platforms, when the national interest of Armenians is at issue they all speak in one voice.
What I have in mind is process itself; process as implicitly meaningful. I think what you are referring to as “unity” is at its core a demand by some for uniformity or homogeneity. Could you please state what gives you the authority or qualification to demand that someone retract his opinion from Azbarez? Who needs a nation with 50 political parties when there is no room for basic freedom of speech?
Dino. Perhaps your version of the “Armenian world” has passed me by, but that doesn’t really upset me, since it’s a world of “either/or”’s. It’s much harder, actually, to do “both/and”, to work at preserving a sense of identity while accepting and grieving over what is lost and will never be again the way it once was. While it’s interesting and clearly evident that you have looked me up and read my other writings, I have not found it necessary to go beyond your posts in the various parts of Asbarez. Aren’t you the same Dino Ajemian who wrote elsewhere that you like Jesus, and that he’s your favorite Jew? Who are the “barbarians” you repeatedly speak of? See what I mean, Dino? English is actually my language of education and I’m able to read not just text but context, what’s written, how it’s written, and and what’s implied or intimated. And, yes, I’ve arrived at a working hypothesis about you through these exchanges, and your other writings, and I believe that your rhetoric resonnates with that of an unfortunate and growing movement of extreme nationalism among Armenians, a branch of which happens to idolize Hitler. And in terms of being able to read and think critically, was it not you who praised Mr. Pat’s recent rant about Armenian women as “pure genius, a literary marvel for the ages”?