ANKARA—Despite assurances from Armenia that the Constitutional Court ruling will not affect the Turkey-Armenia protocols process, Turkey is demanding written legal guarantee from Yerevan, while, at the same time, sending a warning to the US on the passage of the pending Armenian Genocide resolution in Congress, reported the Turkish Today’s Zaman newspaper on Tuesday.
The newspaper added that the Turkish Foreign Ministry already has begun drafting such a document that delineates the Turkish position on what it calls the “incompatibilities” of Armenia’s Constitutional Court ruling.
Ankara is hoping to get the US and Switzerland to join this process and Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu is planning to discuss the matter with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during an upcoming scheduled meeting in London later this month. Ankara also plans to apply to the OSCE Minsk Group and European Union.
The newspaper reported that Davutoglu has told his Armenian counterpart Eduard Nalbandian that Turkey would not ratify the protocols without legal guarantees from Yerevan.
Armenia’s high court, on January 12, ruled that the Armenia-Protocols were in line with Armenia’s Constitution, but highlighted that the protocols had no link to the Karabakh conflict, and could not hinder Armenia’s efforts to garner international recognition for the Armenian Genocide as outlined in Armenia’s Declaration of Independence.
Turkey reacted last week, with its foreign ministry saying that the Constitutional Court ruling amounted to preconditions being set by Armenia. Since the beginning of the protocols process, Turkey has publicly and on numerous occasions said that the normalization of Armenia-Turkey relations would not move forward without a Karabakh conflict resolution, which favors Azerbaijan.
In an interview with the Turkish NTV channel, Davutoglu also warned that if the Armenian Genocide resolution were to be discussed or passed by the Congress, the Armenia-Turkey rapprochement would break down.
Good. I guess the protocols are dead. No more excuses for the president to come out and say the “G” word on April 24. Enough is enough.
Armenia’s borders are open through Georgia and Iran. If Georgia acts up, Mother Russia will teach it a lesson. Iran needs friends to avoid the effects of sanctions. Armenia does not need Turkey. However, in order for Turkey to enter the EU, which it desperately wants, it has to open the border. Or else, it will never get in.
Let us move on and only think about electing Armenians in the US senate and congress.
Turkey EU member?
No way Jose, EU already has more than enough Turks to clean all their public bath rooms; I don’t exactly remember it was in 80s or 90s they sent home some surplus Turks back home, because the German Government got alarmed the way Turks were multiplying in their cities like rabbits.
in 70s I’ve seen it myself in Frankfurt and Stuttgart at day time all playgrounds were filled with Turkish Kodoukhs like ants while their parents were at work.
The rest; that is asking guaranties and giving warnings are “Blowing in wind”, the Armenian version fits better “Shoona hacha Kamin Dani” which translates to “Dog barks and wind takes it away”.
Sooooooo True Kiazer.. I agree with you..
And Yes Hovsep.. Turks are dogs barking and barking and barking but at the wrong tree… No one cares about their Hachotsnera…
This could be a silver lighting in the darkest sky.. Oh I just wish this will go away.. the sooner the better… Mer kyanqa keran…
And electing Armenians in Congress and Senate is very feasible solutions .. I totally agree…
Armenian goverment say and signed something and the court change it to another thing… sure one side is not playing acccording to the rule of the game and not keeping his word…armenians.
whe it comes to borders, armenians have it desperate, neither iran nor georgia can replace Turkey. and the economic stuation bad in armenia. if its a blackmailing to Turkey connected with the us senate decission on armenian genocide argumets than for sure it would not work anymore….
loosing Turkey wont help any for the US in the region and for sure ever first time there is a goverment totally sure of its hold now in power here in Turkey.
on the otherhand Turkey saying lets live the decission to the historians and scientist to find out what is the trut related with arguments.
if it is a genocide than historians and scientist would justify it. its hard to understand why the armenians dont accept this – if they are sure what they are arguing of course.
I will try to respond by not insulting your Turkishness (which will be exteremly difficult of me to do). However, you have responded to this article by insulting my Armenianess. Be very careful about doing that in the future by bringing it up as a debate. In essence, you are calling my grandparents, who saw their parents decapitated heads, as liars.
Historians have already concluded that it was a Genocide–namely US and Turkish historians have concluded including this president, that it was genocide. As a matter of fact, even the Turkish court who convicted the trinity of the unholey pashas, as having committed genocide. That is why they were condemed to death and they ran like little rats.
Do not come on this site and insult my Armenianess. Go post somewhere else, if you are permitted to do so.
Message to Sercan,
What happened 100 years ago in Adana was a Genocide, what happened 95 years ago in the Ottoman Empire was a Genocide and took the life of 2/3 of all armenians in the Ottoman Empire. Armenian massacres together with the Jewish Holocaust were used as the basis to create the word Genocide. So in my message to Sercan, I would like to clearly say that the subject is not new to historians or to scientists. Over 100 scientists and sepcially Genocide scholars declared clearly that what happened to Armenians was a Genocide that’s why we are 100% sure of what happened to us. Not only this but what about the lootings under Ataturk in 1923, the Varlik Vergisi in 1943, Greek massacres in 1955 all these under the infamous and fascistic Turkish Republic. Accept you fault, your Guilt as a Nation and pay the damages (for the Armenian Genocide itself estimated to more than 45 biilion US). Only by sincerely apologizing to Armenia and to armenians and by compensating for all the destructions, you will only be able to benefit, like Germany did. That’s the only way to go ! STOP pressuring here and there, the History sooner or later will catch you Turkey.
Sercan, the Armenian Genocide is the second most studied genocide ever. Only in Turkey has the story been changed so the truth must never be revealed. That is why anyone talking about the truth will be prosecuted for “insulting Turkishness”. How stupid is that? Pretty much the rest of the world understands the truth. Even in the U.S. there are over 40,00 pages of official archival material on the “systematic armenian race extermination”. The Armenian Genocide is not in doubt. However, Erdogan who was recently in the U.S. when confronted with the Armenian Genocide said “it is a lie”. It means regardless of how many historians agree, Turkey still has no real intention of facing the truth.
Turkey before the collapse of USSR was a very important US ally by having 2 functions; the major function was being a neighboring country to USSR during the cold war, and then it was among the few Muslim courtiers in the region like Iran, Pakistan, Jordan being friendly with Israel.
By collapse of USSR while Russia and all the new Republics were in disarray; US managed to gulp about 4 of those Republics and by doing that major part of Turkey’s importance for US vanished and because of that the only value of Turkey for US in absence of Iran; was its friendship with Israel until that Erdoghan / Perez 2009 fiasco during the World Economic Forum in Davos, now you tell me what other value Turkey has for US in that region;
Being a democratic country? Heh Heh Heh Heh;
Having valuable resources? Heh Heh Heh;
Being Afghanistan’s Hashish highway (like Silk road) to civilized world? (You put as many Hehs as you want)
Having civilized people as majority? (We need 69,000,000 Hehs out of 70,000,000 population)
Then what? You tell me Mr. Sercan what value? (My apologies if you are female but I put Mr. because I know the majority of the female population in Turkey is voice less)
sercan; You are part of th 70% turks illiteracy problem,no need to explain anything to you.
we don’t need turkey – turkey needs us…we don’t want turkey, turkey wants us, so that they can repeat what they have done for centuries. Denying the Genocide will land you guys straight in HELL – with the devil’s blessing – that is all i wanted to say. JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL – it may take a little more time, but it will prevail – God will never let the memory of millions of souls that were massacred and bludgeoned to death be forgotten. Genocide is a fact – denying a fact is plain stupidity – but then again – turks have already proven how stupid they really are, no need to legalize the fact.
Very good. Same as Harut said, the protocols are doomed and I say it serves for the garbage “le bin”, and may it rest there forever and ever.
Right on Kiazer Souze, our borders are open through Georgia and Iran. We don’t need a denialist Genocidal Turkey’s borders. It was stolen lands from Armenia to begin with; we’re better off not dealing with liars that speak from both ends of their mouth, namely Turkey.
Another FAILED attempt by the US State Department. First TARC (Turkish Armenian “Reconciliation” Committee”, and then the Protocols.
Why is it a FAILED State Department? Because, those who run it, think that appeasing Turkey and their incessant attempts to squash Armenia, would earn them unfettered access to Central Asian gas & oil.
Nice try, it won’t work – unless the FAILED State Department and its so-called ally Turkey confront the crime of Genocide by Turkey and address the issues of land, reparation and restitution.
Aferin Berj, very good comment.
I second that..:)
How is Serge Sarkisian going to maintain that the Protocols do not question the recognition of the Genocide now? It will be very interesting to see what sort of “guarantee” Clinton will provide.
It will be interesting now to see how Serje Sarkisian is going to re-sell the protocols to Armenians who were told that the issue of whether Genocide happened will not be debated, and that there was nothing in the protocols to suggest such questioning of the Genocide. The President, and especially his Foreign Minister, were accusing Dashnaks of “looking for a calf under the cow”, meaning Dashnaks should not look for things that are not there……now Dashnaks should shove that proverbial “calf”… you know Nalbandian’s…. where!
The President and his F Minister like young boys played a “Piss on wall” game in Geneva to amuse Hilary Clinton; but they pissed very hard and straight on a hard wall that it splashed back on their and everybody’s faces in that room.
Now if Hilary C., Gordon, Serje and Nalbandian and everybody else are trying to save their faces by sticking to ACC comments and Turkish F Minister is jumping up & down not knowing where this hurricane came from; then as top Dushnak H. Makarian said if it’s true it’s OK with us, then please let it go with no pushing and “shoving”, let them wipe their faces.
ACC also mentioned about the illegality of Kars and any other such treaty in regards of present boarders.
Hovsep, you must have read the book ‘The Carpet Baggers’, which was once banned and taken off the shelves in the 50’s and 60’s. I coudn’t agree more with your scenario. Well done!
Dear Sercan, If boarder opened up with Turkey, first thing Turks will do, open consulates in Gyumri and Yerevan and engage woman trafficking businesses…and after will invest into Armenia’s carpeting business, in order to wave praying carpets for faithful Turks… Please don’t tell us that Turkey has good intention toward Armenians….we have seen enough of Turks..
and so sercan, I should believe what some Turkish historian thinks is not Genocide and not believe what my grandparents lived through and saw with their own eyes.
If it walks like a duck, flies like a duck, quacks like a duck,has feathers like a duck….its a DUCK!
No matter how some Turkish historian wants to spin it…IT WAS GENOCIDE!
Sercan, I can not immagine that you are that naive! I am Armenian and I can name and show you the pictures of the 42 members of my extended family that never made it out of Anatolia between 1895- 1915. Do you want me to wait for a historian or a scientist from Ataturk University or somewhere else to tell me what happened? You must be out of you mind.
To answer your question of why Armenians don’t accept a commission of historians and scientists as to whether the Armenian Genocide happened or not is akin to asking the human race to accept a commission about whether there is a moon. The evidence for the Genocide has been studied by emminent scholars the world over. Not just Armenians scholars, but scholars from many different nations. The point is, the question has already been answered numerous times. Shall we keep asking until we get a different answer? I mean no disrespect here, but going with the above analogy, it’s equivalent to asking if the moon exists?
Instead of continually asking the same old question about whether or not the Genocide occured, why not just accept the answer given by so many scholars and then move forward. The more Turkey continues on this path of asking a question for which everyone knows the answer, the more ridiculous it looks to the world. I’ve met some very intelligent Turks. I can only imagine how embarrasing this Genocide denial, at some point, will be for them.
Turkey has cramps in its belly again
April 24 is near. I hope the US president got armanians’ message in recent voting booths. We derailed N.J., Virginia and of course Mass elections in sending a message. We voted in droves against the president’s party just to show our disappointmant.We are ready for 2010 elections of all in favor of Genocide. US should not be blackmailed or scared of Turkey.Armenians are strong and we will vote the 2.5 million votes we have. They better pass the genocide bill and be on the side of truth
Harry.. and the cramps are worst than ever now that April is getting closer and closer..
You think Obama will stand up and confess his stupidity for not keeping his promise? Do you think he will recognize the Genocide?
Lets hope he does not make the same mistake twice..
What happened 100 years ago in Adana was a Genocide, what happened 95 years ago in the Ottoman Empire was a Genocide and took the life of 2/3 of all armenians in the Ottoman Empire. Armenian massacres together with the Jewish Holocaust were used as the basis to create the word Genocide. This reality is not new to historians and to genocide scholars. who declared clearly that what happened to Armenians was a Genocide that’s why we are 100% sure of what happened to us. We should not forget also the lootings in1923, the Varlik Vergisi in 1943, Greek deportations in 1955. Only by sincerely apologizing to Armenia and by compensating for all the destructions, Turkey will become a more democratic and a great nation.
The only legal guarantee Turkey can expect is that Armenians will never accept to stay silent about the great crimes committed against them and (in the words of W) will bring Turkey to justice or justice to Turkey, whether it likes it or not.
This is outrages, how far this shameless and double standard government of Turkey wants to go. where is armenian’s pride, why we don’t shut their mouth once and forever, who ever closed the boarder let them open. Who is desperate, US, EU, or Rusia, let them put Turkey under pressure to open. why we put our pride into Turks pocket by compromising our legal rights. Let Armeinian oligarchy’s make less millions.
Our boarder is open to Iran and whole Asian countries through Iran. Our boarder is open from Georgia to Rusia and blacksea to Europe. We don’t need that bloody boarder to be open.
Mr. Nalbandyan is kaput. Davutoglu (read Nadir Shah) now is talking to Mr. Gagik Sahakyan (read Gohar from the same poem).
Dear Prime Minister Erdogan and President Sarkisian,
The proposed protocols between Armenia and Turkey call for an “impartial historical commission” to investigate what the world knows as the Armenian Genocide of 1915.
As the leading scholarly organization engaged in the study of genocide, we welcome continued investigation that will enhance our understanding of the 1915 massacres. However, we are extremely wary of any call for allegedly impartial research into what are clearly established historical facts.
Acknowledgement of the Armenian Genocide must be the starting point of any “impartial historical commission,” not one of its possible conclusions. The world would not accept an inquiry into the truth of the Nazi Holocaust, or the extermination of the Tutsi in Rwanda, and nor can it do so with the genocide of the Armenians.
President, International Association of Genocide Scholars
Thank you Berj. All Armenians in the world think the same way. Turkey forgets that in 1948 the word ‘Genocide’ was created because of the Turkish atrocities and annihilation of the whole Armenian nation in Western Armenia. The turkish leaders and indeed many turks are in complete denial.
If Armenian FM visits this site, here is some insight.
Concerning the “incompatibilities” of Armenia’s Constitutional Court ruling. Unfortunately for Armenians, and not only Armenians, Turkey for centuries has adopted a simple formula for resolving national problems: “There are no Armenians, there is no Armenian Problem” (see an ocean of references). So, grace a your inclinations, the history of the Armenian GenocideS makes a large portion of the Armenian history. When the two-side commission was advised to be created by the second protocol, you, Mr. Turkish FM, knew that the Armenian genocide is put under “investigation”. Armenian Constitutional Court brought transparency to this hidden intention. And negated any prospect!
What is that, in your opinion, makes you a higher type being, so that you can constitution “Not insult Turkishness”, while you – somebody presumably graduated from liberal arts university, can point figure and insult Armenians?! To whom you “intend” to be a good neighbor!!!
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan
Outside of your government, there is no doubt about the facts of the Armenian Genocide, therefore our concern is that your demand for a historical commission is political sleight of hand designed to deny those facts. Turkey has, in fact, shown no willingness to accept impartial judgments made by outside commissions. Five years ago, the Turkish members of the Turkish Armenian Reconciliation Commission pulled out of the commission after the arbitrator, the International Center for Transitional Justice, rendered an assessment that the events of 1915 were genocide.
And, Prime Minister Erdogan, you have repeatedly stated that even if a historical commission found that the Armenian case is genocide, Turkey would ignore the finding.
As William Schabas, the current president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, said in his letter to you and President Sarkisian, “acknowledgment of the Armenian Genocide must be the starting point of any ‘impartial historical commission,’ not one of its possible conclusions.”
Our previous letter, which was unanimously approved by the members of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, lays out the consensus among historians as to the historical reality of the Armenian Genocide. We believe the integrity of scholarship and the ethics of historical memory are at stake.
Signed, International Association of Genocide Scholars
I have placed this below article one year ago, and still is very fresh for our Turkish friends to read and understand, that we Armenians know all the Turkish tactics, mentality and sensitivities and mostly Turkish delights, regards the truth of Armenian Genocide…
Every calendar year start from January, Turkish political media increase their activities in Middle East….they hope that US Government will listen to Turkey’s “good will” intention toward a peaceful resolutions. Turks do not understand, their double standard position regarding their “goodwill” resolutions in the West.
Turks have to forget, if they have influence in Middle East or any where in this world.
The destruction, that they have created especially in M.E. is not forgotten yet, Israel can not trust Turkey’s double standard as a Muslim friend in Middle East.
Turkey can not be a Jews or Christians friend or work for a peaceful resolutions with them. Turkey historically never support a Jewish State in Middle East, but Palestinians.
All these Turkish “good will” intention is based on “Armenian Genocide Recognition” by US and Western World, when the time is ticking toward April 24, each year, political activities of Turkey sky rocketing, they love to bury their ancestral committed Genocide toward Armenians, and other Christian population of Ottoman Turkey, but how much longer??
Turks know how to play this political game.. they are smart and sneaky when it comes to save their interests.. and Armenians it seems always fall for their tactics… This year will be interesting to see what Turks will do and how Armenian govt will react.. PLUS if our well spoken yet little lamb president will openly call to everyone that “YES, THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE DID HAPPEN AND WE ARE GOING TO RECOGNIZE IT…”
There is only one straight solution to this total nonsence of protocoles, and that is to have an ARF president who would act like the “president of ALL Armenians” and not the president of a few. As stated by many of my fellow Armenians, we don’t need Turkey’s open borders neither their particpation in Armenia’s economy. Such participation will only enslave what is left of greater Armenia.
I suggest that the protocoles to be assigned to historians (especially the members of TARC) for their analytical and academic review.
Say, Turks committed genocide and countries all over the world accepted that. What is gonna happen? Well, this acceptance is not that easy. Because those western countries, also the country I am living in, colonised the entire world for centuries. They committed crimes or genocides as well. So if one country recognises those genocides against other countries, what will exactly be the ensuing consequences? Anything tangible? I dont think so. Look at Jews. What they all do is to commemorate Holocaust victims one day in a year. What does it mean? Commemoration? Nothing. Jews are also good babykillers, invalidating their victimhood.
I lived in Turkey as well, in a rich and modern area of European Istanbul, I saw many Turks and Armenians living together like brothers. Just as I saw many Kurds and Turks living the same way. I don’t understand your viewpoint. Your comments are full of hate, don’t hate each other, most Turks are not monsters, just as most Armenians are not, either.
I am sure you have your reasons to post your comment and I respect that.. It is your point of view and your opinion.
However, speaking like Turks should be saved and Armenians should stop the hatred and be brothers with Turks is yes a GREAT dream but it will never happen.. NEVER.. unless Turks start educating themselves that what govt is feeding them and showing them and allowing them to do, say or feel, maybe then the Armenians who actually have a soul and heart will give Turks a chance and try to live like great neighbors.. Until then, they will remain on our black list and will never be forgiven.. I understand there are many many Turks who do not agree with what has been going on for centuries and currently, there are some who in secret fight against it along side with Armenians, but they are very small % of the entire Turkish nationlism..and will never satisfy the pain, the torture, the anguish our ancestors who had to face and us who have to deal with the denial (the worst thing you can cause someone)…without any guarantee that Turkey will change..
Your vision is very promising but it will only be feasible in a dream..
This is just my thought..
Exactly, like brothers. But always one is big brother and other is small brother.
It’s the PROCESS stupid – not the protocols:
The protocols, in some form or another, are not dead, sadly. The powers that pushed them, Russia, the US, and the EU, still wish the ideas behind the protocols to become a reality.
It’s the PROCESS, not the protocols.
Good point Zareh. Indeed Sarkissian and Nalbandyan, they were either dreaming or lying or both. Tashnagtsoutyun do not lie, they are there for the people and for the safety of Armenian and Artsakhian lands. They are there to see that Western Armenia is returned to the owners “Armenians”. They are there to see that justice prevails, and Tashnagtsoutyun is not money hungry, corrupted such as the president and his oligarchs. It is unfortunate; but they should clean their acts or get the heck out of ruling Armenia, for Armenia should be ruled by governments who love her and her people.
Now the protocols must go to the garbage; because they are written against Armenia’s safety, against Armenia’s rights for reparation in the form of Western Armenia and it is further against the right for Artsakh’s right for self determination. NO FOR PROTOCOLS. Enough already Sarkissian; get rid of it now for good.
Perhaps, Turkey should provide guarantees that they would not harm a single Armenian and not commit another Genocide; in addition to restitution and reparation. Armenia should be asking for assurances and guarantees, not the other way around.
I am just amazed how Turkey pushes its luck with demanding all these things from Armenia and everyone else.. OV ES DU Turkey?
Georgia has had open borders with Turkey for years. What prosperity has that open border brought for Georgia? Armenia should not be so desperate to have the border with Turkey opened.
Hye, we Armenians deserve justice and reparations from the Turkish nation – from the Ottomans down to the present leaderships for slaughtering, raping Armenians, stealing their culture, and the Armenian’s lands of nearly 4,000 years.
Too, those nations who deprived us of justice following the Turkish Genocide of the Armenian nation are guilty of ALL the Genocides which have been perpetrated since the Armenian Genocide. Sadly, millions upon millions of innocents lost to their families, families destroyed
and never regained… destruction of lands, homes, cultures, and more.
Then there are the Israelis who have had their Genocide recognized and the guilty brought to face justice and more, reparations. Have Israelis since tried to end the cycle of Genocides?
A Genocide is a Genocide is a Genocide! The victims all faced the despots most ugly and deviant means of destroying humans – inhumanity of humans to other humans….terrorizing, slaughtering, raping, kidnapping, setting women and children in churches to be set afire… and more… Even animals, in the wild, only kill for food. Genociders are deviants – defiying all the rules of civilized mankind on our planet . Today, bullying is their means of escaping their guilt for their Genocides via denials, distractions, deceit.. PLOYS, over, over, over… repeatedly.
And how does a Turkey admit to its guilt? Not with these leaderships they have thus far. Just as
the Nazi were cleared out of the German government – so too, the Turks need to clean out their
government… to face the truths of the Turkish Genocides perpetrated and then, only then, be able to join the civilized natons of the world.l Manooshag
P.S. Sadly, our Armenian leaderships leave a lot to be desired… a clean house here is in order too. M.
I too favor getting rid of the hustler casino advertisement on the Asbarez webpage. Some have mentioned it on previous posts and I see it doing more harm than good. Can something more constructive not be advertised to our readership? I understand Haytoug is a “sponsored link” but what is hustler casino?
I, Nairi Densizian, and my fellow Armenians in diaspora, Armenia nad specially USA, we solumnly guarantee to you that we will fight our best to pass the genocide bill in US and the rest of Europe.Turkey will be so undesirable (more so than now) all over the world as we keep proving time and again for your moronish and ignoramous brains to learn and finally admit and apologize on your knees to armanians
Turkey has no right interfering in Armenia’s constitutional affairs.
But off davitoghlu.
(The man looks so much like hitler.)